Walt Lindala

00:00

This episode brought to you by cafe Imports, Minneapolis based importers of fine specialty green coffees. Independently owned and operated since 1993, Cafe Imports has been dedicated to decreasing its impact on the earth through renewable energy, carbon neutrality, and by supporting conservational efforts in places where quality coffee is grown and also where quality coffee is consumed. Where does your coffee come from?

Frida Waara

00:24

And by the national parks of Lake Superior foundation. As a nonprofit, we rely on support from listeners like you. If you like what you hear, please consider a donation. To learn more and make a gift. Visit us@www.gosuperior.org.

Walt Lindala

00:54

Welcome to the Lake Superior podcast.

Walt Lindala

00:56

I'm Walt Lindela.

Frida Waara

00:57

And I'm Frida Wara. We are made stronger by story, and there's no better source than the continent's largest body of fresh water, Lake Superior.

Walt Lindala

01:07

So join us as we highlight the five national parks that ring this greatest.

Walt Lindala

01:11

Of the Great Lakes.

Walt Lindala

01:13

Meet the people, tour the places, and learn about the projects that make these parks and body of water so remarkable.

Frida Waara

01:20

This podcast made possible with the support of the national parks of Lake Superior foundation and media brew Communications.

Walt Lindala

01:28

I'm Walt Lindela.

Frida Waara

01:29

I'm Frida Wara.

Walt Lindala

01:30

Welcome once again to the Lake Superior podcast. Today, Frida talking a little bit more about what has been an undeniable season on the big lake and a winter that kind of wasn't and what it can mean. We've touched on this already on the podcast, but it's an undeniable factor of the winter of 2024 in particular or the winter that wasn't.

Frida Waara

01:51

Is it El Nino Mackie? I don't know. El Nimi Mackie. I don't know exactly what to say. You know, one thing that I wanted to do, Walt, there's a lot of speculation. There's a lot of folks out there that have all kinds of things to say about this weather, but I wanted to get with somebody who looks at our big blue every day, looking at what the great Lakes in general, what we're in for. And that's what led me to Tyler Penrod, and we're going to meet him today. He is the program manager at Superior Watershed partnership and has lots to say about what's happening to Lake Superior.

Walt Lindala

02:27

Tyler, welcome to the podcast. Thanks for joining us.

Tyler Penrod

02:30

Yeah, thanks, Walt. It's great to be here.

Walt Lindala

02:32

Well, we wanted to ask you a few things. First of all, you know, with, as being a program manager with the superior watershed partnership for folks that may not be fully familiar with what you do with the partnership and how it ties into the Great Lakes and the Great Lakes region. Can you give us sort of an elevator speech as to what the partnership does?

Tyler Penrod

02:51

Sure. Yeah. So our focus is really on the upper peninsula of Michigan, but the watersheds that live within it. So the upper peninsula is blessed to have the superior watershed, as well as the Lake Michigan and Lake Huron watersheds. So our projects really focus on that, but we're also focused on addressing climate change, and that's a big driver in the changes that we've seen in our environment and the lake here.

Walt Lindala

03:21

So I do have to ask you this, then, when we look at this, obviously, this is a non winter. We were just talking about that a second ago. You keep an eye on Lake Superior through the partnership. Are there effects that this kind of unseasonable weather will have on this, of the greatest of the great lakes?

Tyler Penrod

03:39

Yeah, we do keep a close eye on superior, and, in fact, I'm looking at it as we speak, because our office is right on the shore here at Marquette, Michigan, and this winter's warm temps truly have been unprecedented. Some things that we're keeping an eye on with an isolus lake Superior this winter are coastal erosion and how that affects people's private property in their homes, as well as public infrastructure. A lot of those same concerns with water levels and how those might change more rapidly than we're used to, as well as impacts on fish and other wildlife. And with these dry spring conditions, we're also even concerned with wildfire on the upper Peninsula this spring, in addition to.

Frida Waara

04:29

All this warming, this evaporation, the coastal erosion, that's really important to me. I don't even imagine it. But that ice shelf really does protect us, because it seems to me every time we have a season change, it comes with wind, and those big wind events that come in the spring that can really tear apart some of our banks along the shoreline. But what can we do?

Frida Waara

04:55

Tyler.

Tyler Penrod

04:57

Right. I mean, this is a trend that's been developing for decades, really, since they've started recording data on ice coverage on Lake Superior. Back in the seventies, we've seen a 70% decrease in ice cover on Lake Superior, which is a trend that unfortunately is expected to continue this time of year. Late February, early March. We should be reaching our peak ice cover on Lake Superior, which historically has been around 40%. But talking to you today, we're in the low single digits, and that ice coverage is really isolated to northern, the north shore there in Canada.

Tyler Penrod

05:42

So here on the southern shore in Marquette, looking out into our bay here, there's no ice today, and that has a lot of negative consequences for our environment, our ecosystems here that have adapted and evolved for thousands of years to survive with the protection of ice and snow. And I guess a couple of species to look to are lake trout and whitefish, which spawn in shallow waters with rocky bottoms. And usually their eggs are protected by a sheet of ice. That keeps our really powerful waves and wind from affecting them and protects them from ultraviolet light from the sun. But without that ice, they're really exposed and could have effects on the productivity of our cold water species.

Frida Waara

06:40

I have not heard that is something new.

Tyler Penrod

06:44

Right. That's one concern, that as we're losing this ice coverage, that we could see impacts on their populations, which are important parts of our lake ecosystem and our communities, too. But, Linda, like you mentioned, erosion, that's a big concern for a lot of stakeholders who live on and enjoy our shoreline here. That ice shelf really does protect us from the most powerful wind and waves that develop over the fall and winter. And so without that ice shelf, we get the brunt of that force, and the lake really does giveth and taketh away. You can see deposits of sand forming in new places, but also huge losses, erosion of beach and people's properties. All those things are damaging effects of this decrease in ice cover. But there are a lot of cultural and economic impacts, too, right?

Tyler Penrod

07:53

Less snow and ice is really forcing lake superior communities to be resilient as climate changes challenge our cultural identity and ways of life. Living up here, I've seen a lot less snowmobile traffic just because there isn't the opportunity. And without that tourism, which a lot of our local economies are based on, we're seeing a lot of hurt from bars and restaurants, local businesses and hotels. I've seen more than a handful of stories, unfortunately, of close calls and tragedy with ice fishing incidents, just with poor ice conditions. Being an avid cross country skier, I've had the number of days I've been able to hit the trails really greatly reduced. And I'm sure downhill ski resorts are feeling some pressure there, too. And, of course, sled dog races.

Tyler Penrod

08:50

The up 200 is one of my favorites to get out and see here in Marquette, but unfortunately, that was canceled. Now for the second year in a row, a number of other sled dog races in the up have been canceled as well.

Walt Lindala

09:03

We're talking with Tyler Penrod here today, who is program manager with the superior watershed partnership. And, you know, Tyler, it's interesting because.

Walt Lindala

09:11

It sounds to me also like you're looking at.

Walt Lindala

09:13

You've mentioned the climate change conversation a couple of times already in our first few moments. Can you tell me a little bit about some of the work that you're doing with that? I understand there's something called the Great Lakes climate core and things along those lines. Can you share a little bit of information as to what you are looking to do in terms of outreach and education and trying to make people aware of this situation?

Tyler Penrod

09:35

The Great Lakes Climate Corps is the program that I manage here at the Superior watershed Partnership, and we call it the GLCC, just a shorter acronym for it. But our Great Lakes Climate Corps program has really grown over the last 25 years. This year, we're looking to employ about 40 seasonal staff, and we're currently in the process of hiring. It'll be about six or seven crews this year. For the summer, we supply our GLCC members with work trucks and training and all the tools that they'll need to get the job done. And in my position here, I coordinate projects with dozens of our partners, all five tribes in the Upper Peninsula, federal agencies like the US Forest Service, National Park Service, state agencies, local units of government, and other nonprofits, too.

Walt Lindala

10:32

Can I ask you said, get the job done. What are the jobs? What are some of the things that you're doing?

Tyler Penrod

10:38

That's a great question, and it's a long list. This year we have funding to embark on a really ambitious project here in Marquette county to plant 140,000 trees in the next couple of years, which are really important for climate change. They help to absorb some of that carbon dioxide from our atmosphere. They help to improve water quality and reduce erosion. But those 140,000 trees are really just the start. We have thousands more trees that will be going in the ground across the upper peninsula. Like I mentioned at the top, wildfire is another big concern, especially this spring. It's looking to be on the drier side.

Tyler Penrod

11:24

So our crews are going to be working with local units of government and tribes and private landowners actually offering free services to clear woody brush and debris from around people's homes, their camps, and other public infrastructure, public buildings. Our crews are going to be doing coastal inventories this year and collecting data that we can use to actually create engineered final plans for coastal resiliency projects, which we can then submit for grant funding and makes them much more competitive to receive that funding.

Frida Waara

12:04

What kind of trees will you be planting? A variety.

Tyler Penrod

12:07

Yeah. Yeah, it'll be a good variety. We focus on planting native trees, but we're also looking to the future. I mean, the upper peninsula is warming and our ecology is changing, and so we're looking at trees that are best adapted for this new climate future that we're heading into.

Frida Waara

12:26

What would those be? Tyler? What would those be?

Tyler Penrod

12:29

Well, we like to provide a good mix. Some of our really key trees today need our support, too, even though they might not be most resilient for the future. And one that comes to mind is the eastern hemlock. It's a northern tree, and we're right on the edge of its range, but with warming temperatures, it might have a tough go looking ahead. But we're going to be planting white pines, red pines, jack pines, maples, oaks, all great native species for our wildlife.

Walt Lindala

13:11

Let's go back to shoreline resiliency a little bit. I know this is actually something that the partnership has done a lot of work. I know people that own properties and along the lake Superior shoreline that you have assisted with projects that include everything from beach grasses to some trees to things. Can you tell me a little bit about what that work is with the beach resiliency and the shoreline resiliency? And more importantly beyond that, your thoughts on it being important in terms of what we're seeing this year with water levels, ice levels, the lack of protection of all of that, how does that all work to help us with lake Superior in particular?

Tyler Penrod

13:47

Yeah. So this summer, coastal erosion is going to be a huge focus for our organization and our great Lakes Climate Corps. We are going to be addressing some of the erosion that we saw over this fall and winter by planting beach grass, which has these really great, long, deep roots that hold sand in place against the wind and the waves. But we also have a larger scale project, which is a great example of green coastal infrastructure right on our Lakeshore Boulevard here in Marquette, the roads then moved back because waves and ice were crashing onto the road and tearing it up.

Tyler Penrod

14:29

The road was just feet from Lake Superior, but now that the road has been moved back about 100 yards, our organization with the city of Marquette received two and a half million dollars from the National Fish and Wildlife foundation to restore coastal wetland dune ecosystem to that stretch of land between the new road and the lake. And that's going to be opening, reopening public access for the first time in almost a century to Lake Superior for a mile of our city coastline here.

Walt Lindala

15:02

It's a pretty ambitious project.

Frida Waara

15:03

Oh, it's big work. You know, I'm looking at Waltz as we record, and he is someone who definitely knows when we had that major storm event back in 2018 up in the canal and in the Keweenaw, because, you know, Walt is somebody right there. He's a Chassel Boyka. And, you know, Linda, Laura Lane, up that way was a place that was really affected by the storm events. And when you mentioned this, it's all bringing this as we move into spring. It makes me go, yikes. We're not through the worst of it yet, perhaps.

Walt Lindala

15:41

So what are we possibly going to see moving into the spring and into the summer? I mean, it's probably the million dollar question, Tyler, but I mean, what are you sensing? What are you seeing? At least from what you've gathered for data from the last year and the last six months in particular?

Tyler Penrod

15:57

Boy, yeah, projections like that are tough. If we had the answers, we'd love to share them. But I mean, looking at this winter, would you, who would have guessed how dry and warm it's been exactly? I mean, personally, like I said, I was expecting much more time on the ski trails this winter, but I will say weather has proven to be more and more unpredictable with climate change generally, climatologists are saying our region is expected to trend warmer and wetter. But season to season, year to year, I'm really expecting our weather just to get weird. And like you mentioned, the flooding that happened in 2018 in the Keweenaw region was really devastating. And those types of really severe storms are expected to become more common and more powerful as. As we move forward into the future.

Walt Lindala

16:59

Okay, so that's that. That sounds about right with what we've been hearing from a lot of folks who we've been talking to. But when you have these conversations with people, and if I may be so bold, you sound like a younger guy. Much younger than myself, generationally speaking. Are people getting this idea more? Reason I ask is because I'm sure there's always naysayers to the climate change conversation, but when we have a winter like we've had and we've had some of the other seasons we've had, something does seem different. Is that resonating better with the general public? When you talk to them, are there generational shifts that you see in attitude? And what do you tell the average person? Just what they could maybe do in terms of some education to make a difference, have an impact?

Tyler Penrod

17:46

Sure, I do think that. I mean, it's hard to look out your window today and not acknowledge that things are changing. And climate change isn't a far off, distant idea. There's aspects of it that are impacting us here today. And something I wanted to mention is that these aren't just things that happen to us. These are things that we can prepare for and adapt to and be resilient to. And a new program that superior watershed partnership started is our emergency response program. Within 24 hours in 2018, in response to that flood and the Keweenaw, we reprioritized all of our crews to respond to that flood event. To help return a sense of safety and normalcy to the Keweenaw, we operated the volunteer center and distributed resources to the community and help prioritize response to specific projects and areas that were heavily impacted.

Tyler Penrod

18:54

But ways that people can get involved, I think that it's that each person really has a unique strength that they can contribute. When it comes to climate change. A winter like this is really a time to reflect on what personal changes each of us can make. That could be maybe composting your food scraps, or taking the little ones out to start gardening and learn how to grow their own food, and start to eliminate some of the supply chain behind what we eat. Making some energy efficiency upgrades to your home. We have an entire office dedicated to energy efficiency for low income households in the upper peninsula. These are changes that everyone can do to save money. Replacing light bulbs in their house with leds, wrapping pipes to insulate the hot water that's passing through them.

Tyler Penrod

19:50

Those are all things that are good for the planet, but also good for your wallet. I think that older generations, parents and grandparents, have a lot of wisdom that they can share. They've seen the changes from their childhood to now. Those are things that they can share, but they can also listen to some of the hopes and fears that this younger generation has for the future. And like you said, Walt, education is really a big part of the solution. Our organization has a strong k through twelve program where we do environmental education outreach to classes and schools around the upper peninsula. So that's truly a part of. Part of the solution.

Frida Waara

20:32

Change is difficult, but it feels like we're getting it coming at us like a tidal wave. I mean, I listen to that. I'm also driving an EV. I'm trying to be as conscious as I can about my carbon footprint on the planet. And I'm so grateful that the national parks of Lake Superior foundation is also working very hard with all five of our national parks on Lake Superior at trying to reduce that carbon footprint and putting so many things. I mean, pictured rocks is going to battery operated tools out on the trail. That's a big step because we know it's not always easy, but we're making those things happen. But, Tyler, how much time do we have? I mean, can that really bend the curve.

Frida Waara

21:23

And when we hear the scientists telling us that lake Superior is the fastest warming lake on the planet, is there a danger zone? Is there a temperature in there that we've got to, like, be aware of? And I just get the sense, like, it's coming at us.

Walt Lindala

21:41

It's, like, overwhelming, you know, it's like. But, yeah, what do we need to keep an eye out for? What do we need to think about?

Tyler Penrod

21:47

Right? And I'm not familiar with a specific temperature that scientists consider to be like a red line that once we pass, all hope is lost. But I guess I would encourage you to look south from Lake Superior at the Great Lakes below us, Michigan here on Erie in Ontario, I would say that for the large part, superior has been sheltered from a lot of the issues that those lakes face, whether that's zebra and quagga mussels, harmful algal blooms, like that green gum that forms on Lake Erie that can kill fish, as well as E. Coli outbreaks. But as our lake warms and our air, our climate warms, these are all concerns to keep an eye on, because each of those zebra mussels, harmful algal blooms, E. Coli, they all thrive in warmer water, warmer conditions.

Tyler Penrod

22:47

And those are all things that we've started to see pop up in Lake Superior and in much smaller quantities compared to the lower Great Lakes. But some of our Lake superior marinas already have small populations of zebra mussels. We've seen for the first time, harmful algal blooms in Lake Superior, first recorded in 2018, but they've been popping up here and there every so often since. And then E. Coli outbreaks have shut down public beaches in the past. But really, those things all thrive in these warmer conditions, which in the last 25 years, 30 years, Lake Superior's warmed about four to five degrees fahrenheit, and that's, again, a trend that we expect to see continue. But these are all issues that we can be proactive about.

Tyler Penrod

23:43

And community planning, government planning, can go behind a lot of these issues to help us avoid them or adapt to them when they arrive.

Walt Lindala

23:55

We're talking with Tyler Penrod today. He's program manager of the Superior watershed Partnership in Marquette, Michigan. Great information here for around the lake and around the lake Superior watershed. Question for you, though, Tyler, is where can folks find out more about what you're doing with all these projects with the superior watershed? Maybe they're hearing a model for something they want to do in their own community along the lakeshore. What's the best way to find out some more?

Tyler Penrod

24:21

Sure, yeah. So the best way to find out more about us is just by searching the superior watershed partnership online. Our website has a great catalog of the work that we do and examples that can be implemented, really throughout the Great Lakes region to address a lot of these issues that face us. And folks can go ahead and follow us on Facebook and Instagram. We post different opportunities to volunteer throughout the upper peninsula. And I will say, since I coordinate the program, Great Lakes Climate Corps is hiring for the summer season. So if any of you out there have been looking for a job that gets you outside and working to benefit communities in places that you love in the upper Peninsula of Michigan. And the idea of camping all summer excites you.

Frida Waara

25:18

Wait, wait.

Tyler Penrod

25:19

Bug season? Yeah. But it's rewarding work. So I'd encourage you to check out our website. It's www.superiorwatersheds.org.

Walt Lindala

25:31

Well, we appreciate the update with us today, Tyler. You've given us a lot of food for thought, a lot of good work that you're doing there at the partnership. And like I said, it could be a model for other communities to try and doing things like that, because this all started with an idea along the lake Superior shoreline. And now look at the work that you are doing. And we do appreciate your update with.

Frida Waara

25:50

Us today and your optimism.

Walt Lindala

25:53

Yeah, optimism.

Frida Waara

25:54

You know, that's what I guess I get that sense. Like, we've used the word tidal wave and overwhelming and all that. And talking with you really does give me hope.

Walt Lindala

26:05

See, you've already kind of turned around a couple of older dogs here. How's that so? But, Tyler, thank you for your time joining us on the podcast today. Best of luck. And we hope to follow up with you as we maybe check in, maybe in the fall season or going into the winter and see what maybe we can expect. But thank you for your time.

Tyler Penrod

26:20

Yeah, certainly. It was great to be here. Thank you.

Walt Lindala

26:22

Tyler Penrod, who was program manager with the superior watershed partnership. You know, Frida, one of the things that was really heartening about this was that, and I kind of tried to allude to that with him asking the question about sort of the generational impact. You know, I'm 56 years old and you're 39, 29, something like that, a couple of times over. But, you know, we've been living here along the lake, and we have seen.

Walt Lindala

26:47

Changes and we have seen things.

Walt Lindala

26:49

But some people in, like my generation, just don't want to get on board with this yet. And I think that the younger generations will be very instrumental in shaping the future obviously, but beyond even the obvious. But what I really enjoyed about Tyler's comment was that there was a tip of the hat to what we know as having been around the block a couple of times, the respecting your elders kind of concept that he alluded to in his answer. And I think it's important because it shows that we all have to do.

Frida Waara

27:15

This as a team network, working with five tribes and working all along the lake, because it's not just marquette doing this, but we're looking at all the cities and things that we all need to work together at. And I really appreciated his hopefulness.

Walt Lindala

27:31

Yeah, yeah, it's easy to get overwhelmed in all of this. But he also talked about resiliency and adaptability, or as we call it, Sisu. You know, you just kind of get through, look it up if you don't know it's Sisu. It's a finnish way of life, and Frida and I know it very well, but it's. It's just one of those things where it's like we have to adapt because the changes are coming and it's a question of how effectively we will adapt. And maybe some of the things as we knew them won't be there anymore, but it also presents new opportunities for things. And we will adapt and we will be resilient because we're along the lake Superior shoreline and you gotta be here. Yeah, yeah.

Frida Waara

28:07

The big blue teaches us perspective of anything. It always teaches us perspective.

Walt Lindala

28:12

That's going to do it for us on this edition of the Lake Superior podcast. If you do have ideas, by the way, for some topics for us, we always want to hear from you. You can send comments through the national parks of Lake Superior foundation website or through their Facebook page. Just follow along and get these podcast updates when they happen and send us your thoughts and ideas.

Walt Lindala

28:31

I'm Walt Lindela.

Frida Waara

28:32

I'm Freda Wara. Thanks for listening.

Frida Waara

28:36

The National Parks of Lake Superior Foundation NPLSF is the only official nonprofit 501 fundraising partner of the National Park Service for all five us national park sites on Lake Superior.

Walt Lindala

28:50

To learn more about NPLSF projects and programs, you can visit the website@nplsf.org or friend them on Facebook.

Frida Waara

28:59

I'm Freida Wora.

Walt Lindala

29:00

And I'm Walt Lindela. Thanks for listening to the Lake Superior podcast.

Frida Waara

29:04

This podcast made possible with the support of the national parks of Lake Superior foundation and media brew Communications.

Walt Lindala

29:11

This episode brought to you by Cafe Imports, Minneapolis based importers of fine specialty green coffees independently owned and operated since 1993. Cafe Imports has been dedicated to decreasing its impact on the earth through renewable energy, carbon neutrality and by supporting conservational efforts in places where quality coffee is grown and also where quality coffee is consumed. Where does your coffee come from?

Frida Waara

29:36

And by the national parks of Lake Superior foundation. As a nonprofit, we rely on support from listeners like you. If you like what you hear, please consider a donation. To learn more and make a gift, visit us@www.gosuperior.org.